Thompson Turn 6

General chat that fellow COM'ers may be interested in.
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TXBDan
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Thompson Turn 6

Post by TXBDan » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:05 am

I don't think i've ever heard of a specific turn more notorious for eating cars and it's been this way for years. What could the track could do to clean that area up and make it safer? How can the track be pressured to do so?
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joncowen
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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by joncowen » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:00 pm

I feel like it's a lack of knowledge. People don't tend to think of the inside wall being dangerous. All they see is the ton of runoff room on the outside. So, they go a little too nuts.
I don't think the turn is dangerous. I don't think it's the track's responsibility to do anything.

The COM schedule has many FAR more dangerous turns. But, I feel like the difference is that most of the dangerous turns look dangerous, so people take it easy.

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Mick
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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by Mick » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:02 pm

One of the warnings I repeatedly give students - if you you are ever about to put a wheel off resist the temptation to add steering angle, whenever possible straighten out and maintain throttle. I also point out the danger spots and have them scout recovery paths.

Since we'll never eliminate these dangers, maybe as part of driver training we should focus some time on common pitfalls. If there isn't one already, it wouldn't be hard to compile a short list that would cover 90% of scenarios.

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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by TXBDan » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:15 pm

I guess the first step would be to determine if it truly is an anomaly. I'd love to see data on "offs with impact" for various tracks and the turns on them. I doubt its available. It could just be rumor and confirmation bias, but it sure seems like cars hit there a lot. At the SCCA TTNT a couple weeks ago a car spun there and hit another car on track. At least one other car hit the wall that weekend. Seems like on average, a car hits that wall practically every day of every event.
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breakaway500
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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by breakaway500 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:56 am

The later you apex 6 the more you bring "the wall" into play. The pavement grip changes (new vs old) and many don't think about that important fact. Plus the loss of camber past the apex. It's arguably the most "technical" turn at Thompson.
Mick brings up a good point about teaching the do's and don'ts of certain known hazardous corners and conditions.I'm sure it would be time well spent.
Difficult turns separate drivers by their skill levels. Unfortunately if you "guess" wrong..it can be costly. The risk one takes in this sport are up to each individual.. 8)
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by jeffw » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:09 am

In spins that point the car to the left (the wall), cars that have ABS are much more likely to have an impact.

I had a 'moment' there but without ABS was able to stay away from the wall.
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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by brucesallen » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:21 am

almost all times when there is a spin to the inside wall the driver failed to "in a spin, two feet in". No, you can't save it. lock up the brakes and keep your spin on track. Attempt to lock em up even works with ABS if you are already sideways.
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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by JackFFR1846 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:55 pm

brucesallen wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:21 am
almost all times when there is a spin to the inside wall the driver failed to "in a spin, two feet in". No, you can't save it. lock up the brakes and keep your spin on track. Attempt to lock em up even works with ABS if you are already sideways.
Amen to that!

Watch any of those Nurburgring videos of Touristenfahrten (tourist driving days). In about 100% of the spins resulting in 1 car crashes, I cringe and am screaming "Stay on the brakes!" and they don't and then bam.

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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by 962porsche » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm

about turn 6 it's pretty much what Mick said.
I tell every one of my students never ever try to get right back on track if you drop wheels off. start backing off the gas and ride it out !
the biggest mistake a driver can make is to find them self's off line or off track and try immediately to put the car where it should be.
coming out of ten at Thompson will do the same thing if you drop a wheel/s off and try and get right back on track.
last season I repaired a customers car that he dropped wheels off coming out of ten he then tried to get right back on track and shot across the track nose 1st right into the inside wall.

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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by dantheman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:37 pm

turn 6
turn 6
20200727-182436.JPG (151.67 KiB) Viewed 497 times
trying to attach a picture of turn 6 from inside car view
at end of apex you can see on the inside left there is some concrete
that's where I try and put my left front tire on or close to it
there's plenty of room to exit from if you are there
Dan Preston - #222-SB-370Z

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Re: Thompson Turn 6

Post by 962porsche » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:14 am

turn 6 you tend to see 2 different lines coming into it.
neither line is wrong just different for reasons. the 1st line is you do the turn as a single apex the 2nd is you do two apexes. most W2W people will tend to do the double apex. and time attack people will tend to open up the corner and do a single 2nd apex. our data acquisition shows opening up the corner and doing the 2nd apex is a touch faster. so this is what I also teach my students. when you take turn 6 properly your just setting your steering wheel and holding it in one position right from turn in all the way thru tracking out. it will take you right to the last red ripple strip that is the apex and right to the end of the ripples on track out using the track out ripples as your comfort zone if your off line some.
once again if you do drop wheels ride it out and do not try to get right back on track!
I found this also sets you up nicely for coming into turn 7 putting you about 2 car widths off the wall on the left. turn 7 also has two different lines just like turn 6 does. if your W2W racing you need to protect your inside so you do it more as a double apex. I teach my students to open up the corner and take it as a single apex( turn 8 apex ) there is a crack in the pavement I use as my turn in for 7 and you know you are on line when your two right side tires go over the little step in the seam of the pavement in turn 7. turns 7 and 8 are also set your steering wheel and it will take you right thru both 7 and 8 with out having to adjust your steering wheel.
all tracks have areas you do not want to have an off in. the tracks can't make every area on the track idiot proof. being so it's up to the driver to be spot on your line and to drive in your comfort zone. you do need to push your comfort zone some or you will never get faster but where and when your going to do it is your choice. if you don't feel safe in a particular corner then it's not the corner you should be pushing out of your comfort zone. staying safe for you and others is up to you and not up to the tracks. at Thompson if your not comfortable with turn 6 then make dam sure your not going to early apex the corner because you will run out of track on tracking out.

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