Whiskey Hill clockwise

General chat that fellow COM'ers may be interested in.
962porsche
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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by 962porsche » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:52 pm

LMAO you deserve what you get ! true in many ways !!

turn 6 CCW IS A FLAT OUT CORNER going up the hill turn 7 then thru 6 is a hole other matter . your still flat to the floor but the hill kills your speed .
come down the hill from 6 to 5 your getting a good head of speed up but 4 slows you right down to get to the apex ( i was doing a little later apex there ) by the time you get to turn 3 your moving again pretty quickly by turn 2 your moving at a much higher rate of speed so imo the new pit out and pit in should be at turn 2 or right after it going CCW before it CW .

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by cmm3 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:50 pm

+++ on this "that track needs some real work still . i love the lay out but every thing else about palmer really falls way short . it's one thing to put up tire walls but you have to connect all the tires together so when you hit the wall you don't have all the tires that were in a stack now rolling all over the place."

Loose tires have no place on a race track period. Never mind the potential for a tire to go flying upon impact and cause a secondary impact the fact is that if tires are used loosely even in front of a properly cabled together tire wall a car has the potential to climb up over the layers resulting in a roll over. Ask me how I know because this is exactly what happened to me last June when I went off in the rain in turn 4.

Safety barriers on tracks should be taken seriously especially at a track like Palmer were they are so critical as there are no run-offs, just concrete barriers.

Until Palmer gets their shit together and address this problem you won't see me there CW or CCW and I caution people all the time about running there.

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breakaway500
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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by breakaway500 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Whiskey Hill isn't for everyone. There is risk..but lots of reward as well. I've done thousands of laps..yes,thousands,but I'm pretty cautious and run a line that favors the side of safety. I may leave a few tenths out there, but I like bringing the car (and me) back in one piece.
After all..it's about enjoying your track time.

The one thing WH isn't, is boring.. 8) :sunny: :sunny:
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by 962porsche » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:20 pm

WH may not be fore every one but it should be .
safety is one thing all tracks need to take seriously . look at NY safety track it's a real safety track for bikes but not for cars . why ? i have run there a number of time with my cars and it's a good track but is it safe for cars hell NO ! tire walls and sand traps for bikes is real bad for the rider but good for cars .
if any drive doesn't know the risks of being on a track then they shouldn't be on a track !
i'm sure WH put there track into service knowing it was still a work in progress but instead of puting up garages they 1st need to make the track safe .
you look at the skid marks and most go right into walls .the parking lots need paving but before they do that they should pave the run off areas .this will let you stay on your brakes for longer to slow or stop the car . we all know what happens when you are on brakes in sand rocks and grass .
i love he new shit house they built but there is so much more they have to do or should do before giving us a nice place to take a dump in .
a friend last season got tagged in the rear qtr in turn 8 and he went off into the wall wasn't his fault but his car it totaled . his feeling is if they had paved run off he may have still crashed but not totaled the car .
so is it you know the risks or is it you take more needless risks running at palmer ?
i will be back in a few week at palmer and i still will push as hard as i can knowing the risks .
i will be driving the miata and they are like bic lighters you use them and when they break you get a new one .being that way there is no reason to not run at max attack .
if a track any track makes you back off for safety reasons then it tells you right off it's not a safe track .

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by djsteviec » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:21 pm

Dave, how is the Miata going CW from 7 to 6? Very curios about lag up that hill on a low hp car.

Like everyone else, I love the track. I really did not give the safety much thought, and just drove hard.

Maybe this is because I am focused on having a good time and pushing the car, maybe I am stupid, maybe both?

But it did have me thinking more about it after a driver in the AER race I was in, crashed and rolled his car into the mountain coming onto the straight last year.

Luckily, only 2 broken feet for the major injuries and after surgeries and rehab, he is back on track this year! :)
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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by breakaway500 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:13 pm

Driving fast is dangerous. You can't make it completely safe. So it really comes down to risk and reward,which is a personal thing. No one forces that throttle pedal down but you.
I'm sure as the track enters (only) it's third year of operations, they are looking at doing all they can to make things safe,within the budget and time constraints they have.I help out when I can, and hope it prospers for many years to come. It's pretty cool seeing it turn into what it has become.

Meanwhile, my paradise is only 30 minutes from home..! :sunny: :D :sunny:
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by cmm3 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Lot's of interesting comments.
Anyone who gets into a car on a track as either an instructor or a driver ( I do both ) should be we'll acquainted with the risk associated in doing so and accept the consequences when things good bad. If not then they shouldn't get seek other activities.
However by offering a venue for use to non-professionals there is a level of safety preparation that the facility should provide. And it is the responsibility of the owner/s and operators of the facility to know what is acceptable and non-acceptable in providing this preparation.
It cannot nor should it be expected that the renters of a facility would have to inspect the track to determine if it has done this. Also it would be illogical to assume that a renter of the facility could expect any immediate changes to be made even it they did find something.
By stacking loose tires Palmer has knowingly defeated the objective of putting them there in the first place - to provide some additional level of safety. Just the opposite they have actually increased the risk. Given the configuration of the track it's not inconceivable that upon impact with a loose tire wall a tire could go flying, impact another car and cause a fatality.
Frankly it's BS to say you can control your destiny and how hard you put the pedal down is going to determine the level of safety that any track has to offer if there are inherent risk outside of your control.
What Palmer is doing is simple a wrong unacceptable practice and they should know better. The cost to bolt tires together is negligible and the fact that they remain loose while Palmer continues in operation for 3 years is a testimony to the stupidity or carelessness of it's owner, manager, operators or all of the above.

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by breakaway500 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:38 am

Personal safety starts with the operator. It is your responsibility to drive under control and accept whatever happens.That is why you sign a waiver. It's like skiing. They label the trails to help..but in the end, if you ski down the double diamond slope and get hurt..it is your mistake. Is that really so hard to understand?
I was there the day you wrecked..and the weather conditions were treacherous. Blaming the track for your misfortune is not being responsible.
Last edited by breakaway500 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by TroyV » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:09 am

Keep it civil folks.
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breakaway500
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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by breakaway500 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:20 am

Sorry,Troy. I can be a little insensitive at times..;)
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by DanDarcy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:59 pm

All race track managers are very concerned with safety at their tracks! To imply that otherwise is just wrong. I think Palmer is as safe as any track Com uses. There are no loose tires in turn 4 at Palmer, they are bundled and always have been. The motorcycle clubs use loose soft slicks set out in a few locations like turn 2 never turn 4. These loose tires are picked up as soon as possible after the motorcycle event. Ultimately we are responsible for driving safely. The track itself does not hurt us, it is us who do it to ourselves. If you crash in turn 4, hit the tire wall and roll over, it is your fault. Palmer is one of the greatest tracks in North America, Road & Track even says so.
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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by 962porsche » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:40 am

mark i'm totally understanding what your saying .
driving to your ability or just pushing your comfort zone some is on the driver . but the simple fact is it's not up to the drivers on a track to make a track safe .
i will be dammed if i have to start doing the simple things like bolting tires together at a track so when another driver runs into a tire wall the tires are not flying over and across a track . they finely did a double row of tires for turn 9 . is it up to us t o bring our own tires and do that to make things a little safer ???? hell no it's the tracks job to do that . all tracks have danger about them the things that are on the track is to make the things they can make safer ..safer !
i know you have a love for the track as it's close to you and the 1st track in mass . i too would feel the same if i were in your shoes . but this doesn't over cast the fact that paler needs lots of safety work done to the track .
your more then ok with flying tires . sadly i'm not i didn't know a tire hitting my car for no reason other then they didn't bolt or chain the things together .
like i said they seam to have finely bolted them together but should we the tracks customers be out on track doing this ?
not just NO but HELL NO !
should we the customers be dragging tires out on track setting them up for better impact protection ?? again NO !
if your walking around saying the track is as safe as it could be and there is no need to do the simple things all other tracks out there are doing then that really just makes me wonder ????? as if you wheel to wheel race not all crashes are the fault of you the driver some times another driver runs into your car were you have no control over it .
i had no control when the driver in front of me hit the wall and tires went flying onto the track so then i hit one . i missed the 1st 20 of them before one rolled across my path . i was on my brakes dodging them .
tell the bird that the hunter shot (with bird shot) it was up to him ( the bird) not to get hit with flying BB's . it was the same for me when the tires went flying . WTH i was just driving by a crash seen .
simple safety is all most people are looking for . i at no time said they need safer barriers like nascar tracks . just install tires or more were needed and bolt / chain them together . i don't get you seaming to say that is not up to the track to do for it's customers .
as i stated before the risk we take we all know we take every time we get into our cars and head out on track .
as i stated i like seeing paler installing more and adding new tire walls to the track . but Mark what i'm getting from you is they are not needed and this type of safety is or shouldn't be on the track .


as for running it CW it's not any better or worse just different .
your still running up the side of a mountain and back down so with low HP and torque cars it still saps all the power your car has . some of the apexes stay the same some are still late but in the other direction .
so all and all i would love to see the track being able to be run in both directions .

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by 962porsche » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:52 am

i always have a problem with this site trying to up load things . just look at youtube and it's easy to find many .
Jame ray's in > crash sends floating tire walls rolling across track .
K20 civic palmer.

. the tires seam to be bolted now bot in the videos you can see NO they were not bolts of lashed together at all .

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by breakaway500 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:26 pm

What? :shock:

The Hill is calling me and I'm off!! 8) :sunny:
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"

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Re: Whiskey Hill clockwise

Post by 962porsche » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:59 am

i'm back there in a few weeks can't wait . WH is a blast to drive !

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