Spin/roll in T3

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Spin/roll in T3

Postby CP » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:36 am

https://vimeo.com/40843670

I can't remember if I've posted this before but I think it's a good instructional video for several reasons. This April 2012 vid shows a buddy of mine having a braking issue going into T3 at NHMS (I'm following). He complained about his brakes feeling funny at lunch; this was the 2nd session after lunch. He didn't look into his brake problem and paid for it. He was fine and didn't feel sore the following day but his car is just getting back to the track now...2 months and thousands of dollars later.

Things to note:

- the importance of a proper rollcage
- the need for safety workers, however excited/inexperienced they may be
- the need to stay calm so that you can get out of your car safely and efficiently
- check your car's systems if you feel that something may be wrong
- watch for red flags and get your damn car STOPPED when you see one (listen to the cars going by many seconds after the incident)

Productive comments are encouraged.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby breakaway500 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:12 am

Wow..looks like loss of the front braking circuit,as the back tires both lock up (watch tire smoke and black strips) causing the oversteer condition. Funny he doesn't pump the brake pedal (watch the in car) as that's the first thing I've done when experiencing a brake pedal to the floor;It's almost an unconscious reaction. That's what leads me to believe he experienced a partial failure(front circuit gone),as the pedal will go almost to the floor and all you are left with is rears...and prayer.. :shock: Glad he was OK.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby CP » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:23 pm

He said the pedal went to the floor on the first pump and then the rears locked up on the second stab. He told me at lunch that his brakes had been feeling funny but he obviously didn't look into it before going back out. I think it was probably air in one of the front calipers rather than a pad knockback scenario.

I've been training myself for a few seasons now to lightly pump the brake pedal with my left foot prior to entering major braking zones...T3 at NHMS, Big Bend at LRP, pretty much every corner at the Glen and a few places at NJMP. You can see my red brake indicator light (in the upper right corner of my alum center console/dash plate) quickly flicker a few times at the exit of T2, 9 secs into the video.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby Mick » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:08 pm

CP wrote:I've been training myself for a few seasons now to lightly pump the brake pedal with my left foot prior to entering major braking zones...

I do this too, I think it's a great habit. Not only does it give you confidence that they'll be there, but the pump prevents knock back and firms the pedal up.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby 6PAK72 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:57 pm

Since I've been working on left foot braking for a season, this is now on my "to do" list. Thanks for the video.

If I had done this going into the Bowl last weekend, I probably could have settled the car enough to turn it rather than locking and spinning because of the mis-timing induced by no brake application.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby StephanAlfa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:22 pm

Mick wrote:
CP wrote:I've been training myself for a few seasons now to lightly pump the brake pedal with my left foot prior to entering major braking zones...

I do this too, I think it's a great habit. Not only does it give you confidence that they'll be there, but the pump prevents knock back and firms the pedal up.


I once saw and inboard video of Boris Said doing this when he raced with BMW and asked why ... I think everyone reading this know the reason why :?
If you are familiar with Kart racing this will come easy.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby brucesallen » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:17 pm

A technique I use and teach is to stay two feet away from the edge of the pavement for initial braking into Turn 3. Then as I slow down I come close to the edge. This is because a car will often move around upon initial brake application and if you fall off the edge of the pavement with the concrete so close, bad things happen (I know from experience). Not sure this would have helped in this incident.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby CP » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:24 pm

Kinda like this (after the left wheels hit the dirt during braking, I was catching the car and trying not to rear-end the red car). He accidentally got into me after I shot past him so I gave him his spot back and had to remove/bang out my bumper cover the following week: https://vimeo.com/27492903
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby paultg » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:00 pm

Also kind of scary is how long/difficult it was for him to get out of the car. Glad there was no other issues and the corner station was so close.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby Chrispy » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:12 pm

People do exit drills, but your practicing with all 4 wheels on the ground not laying on it's side or upside down. Simple things like unbuckling the HANS are a lot more difficult when you are in an unfriendly position.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby Dtangard » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:02 pm

Mick wrote:
CP wrote:I've been training myself for a few seasons now to lightly pump the brake pedal with my left foot prior to entering major braking zones...

I do this too, I think it's a great habit. Not only does it give you confidence that they'll be there, but the pump prevents knock back and firms the pedal up.


I will start practicing this as well
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby gregscott » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:11 am

Image

Found this Monday morn 7/2/12 while bleeding the brakes.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby 6PAK72 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:21 am

Trust me, undoing your harness when you;re upside down is easy! :shock:

Just brace yourself against the roof.
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby horizenjob » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:49 pm

Greg is that a crack around the edge of the hat? I've only seed radial cracks before. Ouch.

Please guys, take all those fenders and extra bodywork pieces off so you can at least see your car's crucial bits.... :)
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Re: Spin/roll in T3

Postby breakaway500 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:02 pm

Greg,double check your wheel bearing(s) for any runout as I have seen loose hubs cause cracked rotors along the hat to rotor line many times over.
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